Hi, I have a Simca 1000, model year 1968, I want to get faster, my plan is to mount a motor from solara (have not bought the motor yet, he should check if there is a 1592cc engine). Is it a difficult change to fit a 1592cc engine in simca 1000? What do you do? Understand that you have to change camshaft, and ignition distributor and rear cowl, how do you do with clutch disc, 1592cc engine has 200mm clutch disc, but the solara motor rotates clockwise and counter clockwise in 1000, how do I do with dics?
Bobby The 1592 engine will fit the 1000 but quite a few parts from the 1000's engine will need to be fitted to it to adapt it... camshaft to alter the direction of rotation, oil pump drive, sump and oil pickup pipe, timing cover and oil seals at both ends of crank. The (rare) 4 speed version of the 1592 is best as the bolt holes to match up to the 1000 are the same. on the 5speed 1592's the top two line up, the others need redrilling and the 5 speed flywheel is too big in diameter for the 1000 bellhousing. Then you would need to find a 7 bolt 1000 flywheel as all 1592's are 7 bolt.... the earlier 1000's are six. Your car is a '68... that is around the changeover from the early FIAT based engine (centrifugal oil filter) to the later family of engines with external oil pump and normal oil filter (944, 1118, 1294, 1442 & 1592 cc). If you are Ok with the French, all the info for this conversion is on www.simca-rallye.fr website. Another source of an anti clockwise engine, with a fair bit of work is a Honda D series 1590 twin cam as in my trackday 1000.
My engine has a separate oil filter, so if if I move over parts from my 1000 engine for the Solara engine, it is up to work? or the need to supplement new parts? The engine (1592cc) that maybe I will buy, will unfortunately from a Solara that had a 5-speed gearbox, it is possible to drill out the holes in the engine so it fits 1000 bell housing? Unfortunately, I can not French, are also poor in English. Honda engine is an interesting option, something to reflect on
The 1592 block can be drilled for the 1000 bellhousing. The top two holes are the same on 4 & 5 speed. the bottom two need ovalling out as the ones on the 5 speed block are wider apart. The middle two holes need to be drilled into the block and threads tapped to take the bolts. When the 1000 camshaft is fitted into the 1592 block, the gear drive from the 1000 that drives the oil pump must go with it. Then fit the parts that from the 1000 that go under the water pump base (the distributor on the Solara fitted there. The crankshaft oil seals are important as they are directional... the oil will pour out if the solara ones are used. The timing chain cover one comes with the 1000 cover that must be fitted to take the 1000 distributor and the plate with the oil seal on from under the 1000's flywheel can be fitted to the 1592. On the 1294 and 1442 engines from front wheel SIMCA/Talbotdrive cars the pistons should be turned 180 degrees for the different rotation. On the 1592 this is not possible because of the offset design of the piston. We have used one as it is and it worked well. The 1294 and 1442 engines from Horizons, Bagheeras and some Alpines(1307/8), I have found are better engines than the 1592 for fast 1000 use....and there is more chance of finding a 4 speed., also giving you the right flywheel to use on the 1000. You'll probably need a better carb. If your Solara engine has a twin choke Weber, that will fit at the wrong angle on the 1000 . I've seen and used manifolds with a wedge made in alloy to bring the carb back to and upright position. A friend is using one on his 1000 with a hardwood wedge. Mick
Thanks Mick, it's very valuable info for me. In what way do you mean that the 1294cc and 1442cc engines are better in 1000? For it is easier to assemble, or because they are better '. My idea of using the 1592cc was to get more power, should provide more power than the 1442, I think, but I do not know. I have a 1442cc engine (from simca 1508) that has been mounted on a 4.växlad gearbox, is it right flywheel on it? I will use dual weber DCOE
Bobby In my experience the 1442 engine is stronger than the 1592. The 1442 uses the same longer stroke than the smaller engines but the same bore and pistons as the 1294. There is more metal left in the block than the bigger bore 1592 and the 1592 uses offset pistons which we've found are weaker at high revs. The 1592 also uses the same head as the 1442 and the combustion chambers don't quite line up with the offset bore positions so the 1592 does not make as much extra power as a it should.. The French tuners who made big bore engines for the SIMCA 1000 (up to 1730cc) used the 1442 as a starting point. For the opposite direction of rotation the pistons on the 1294 and 1442 have to be turned round 180 degrees as the axis for the conron in the piston is not quite in the centre. With the standard cam pistons will be OK but, for a high lift cam like the Rallye 3, the cut outs to clear the valves in the top of the pistons will have to be ground on the other side. If the 1508 has a 4 speed box, the flywheel should be Ok for the 1000 box, but hthe 4 speeds you had may be different from the UK market ones. A 1294 engine also gives good power...with a Rallye 3 cam and twin 40Dcoe webers they are good for 110bhp. The other car that used the 1294 engine up till about 1991 (in the Uk at least) was the 1.3 Peugeot 309, but I think they were all 5 speeds. Mick
Then maybe it's better to drill a 1442 engine to 1600cc. For a 1600cc must surely have more torque than a 1442cc. The 1442cc engine I think I come from a 4-speed gearbox, 5-speed is unusual in Sweden, do not think it was the 1508. You write that you can get up to 1730cc, it is only by drilling, or crankshaft strokad also? Is honda engine a better option than a good prepared simca 1600cc engine? Gives it more power than a simca 1600cc engine, dual weber DCOE, exhaust 4-1, prepared cylinder head with mira machined valves with larger diameter, good camshaft?
The 1730 engine was in a SIMCA-CG fibreglass coupe owned by one of our French members. It was built many years ago by a French tuning specialist who Is no longer with us. He said it used pistons from one of the peugeot diesels machined to suit but that there was very little thickness left in the block. As he used it for short hillclimbs the engine didn't have to run for long periods. 165bhp in a 548Kg car certainly got him results. ...until the crank broke. The Honda engine transplant is something we are still experimenting with. It runs on the Civic/CRX bellhousing mated (with quite a bit of work) to a SIMCA 1000 gearbox. The fuel tank and radiator have to be moved into the front of the car as the Distributor and starter Motor on the honda engine fit where the 1000 fuel tank normally goes. The '88 to '91 D16A9 CRX/Civic twin cam engine produces 130bhp on the standard injection. For simplicity, I've tried mine on carbs (twin dellortos from a 1.6 alfa) and found the jetting works well. The clutch originall was a 180mm centre plate from a 1294cc 1000 Rallye inside a 210mm CRX clutch assembly. That failed after a drag race meeting and part of a trackday so I've had a 'special' made which I'm going to fit as soon as the weather improves. Ignition on the Honda engine was a distributor from a SIMCA 1100 (same fitting as the Solara etc.) adapted to fit in place of the honda distributor in the end of one of the camshafts. A friend in the Club is workin on fitting the later B series Honda Twin Cam with Vtec to his SIMCA 1000 keeping all the original Honda injction, ECU etc. ...bur it's a long way from being completed. While it was running the Honda conversion certainly did GO...!!! Mick
Okay 1600cc maybe max if you're going to get a long life time. If you can not stroke crankshaft. Honda engine is interesting, how many horsepower is in your friend's Honda engine, which he will have in simca?
A simca engine of 1600cc, with different camshaft, dual weber DCOE, 4-1 exhaust manifold, cylinder head prepared, how much power about?
The Honda CRX SiR B series Vtec twin cam tuned out 160 to 170bhp on the original injection ECU etc. This engine was used through the 90's, later Civics using an 1800cc version. The 1294 SIMCA engine with the Rallye 3 cam, double valve springs, 4-1 exhaust and twin 40DCOE webers was supposed to have produced 110bhp. The 'Factory' Rallye 3's were rated at 103 as they had extra silencing etc. for French noise regs for road use. The 1600 should give a bit extra but its longer stroke would probably not allow the revs of the 1294. I think some of the French racers build special short stroke engines based on the 1294 with the block bored out to that of the 1600 and with special pistonns they get to about 1420 or so cc. Mick
Okay, 170bhp Honda in 1000, would be a lot of fun! But I'll build a simca engine first, either to mount in 1000 or in my 1200s, either 1442cc or 1592cc, tips on good camshaft, valve sizes, etc. are greatly appreciated. to high power. Is Catcams camshafts well simca that they sell? anyone tried?
The camshaft I am using in the 1294 SIMCA engine I am currently running in a FIAT 133 is an exact copy of the factory Rallye 3 Cam. Burton engineering over here used to do them many years ago (no longer available) but they often reprofiled cams that were far too worn. i think mine is the only one still in use here (It was given some kind of coating before being fitted). In place of the Rallye 3 cam, we now use a similar profile called 'Hart 2' fron Kent Cams over here. They are available through Phil Hart, one of our members but new cams are no longer available so a good standard cam has to be found for reprofiling. I think that profile was same as one Fonny Van Vliet of the Belgian club used to supply, from Catcams, I think....Catcams is probably the best place to try now. Mick
I should imagine Maurelec's parts are among the best for the SIMCA/Talbot engines. The 'fastest Rallye 3 in the World' (see on http://www.Simca-Rallye.fr) was originally built by Maurelec for SIMCA Sweden, I think.... It produced over 300bhp from a very much modified 1100cc engine. Mick